Touhou games work similarly though you may need to recollect some power (like one power level or so, exact numbers depend on the game), and Touhou games tend to give a lot more bombs and lives to work with than CAVE games. Your scoring will likely take a nosedive if you die, but the only consequence of dying otherwise is that your remaining lives is decreased by 1, and your bomb stock would be reset. Notably, when CAVE made Dodonpachi Saidaioujou they got rid of powerup items entirely, probably because keeping them was pointless by then. Most also either let you keep your powerups, or scatter all your lost powerups so you can collect them right when you respawn while you're invulnerable. Shepardus wrote:There are plenty of games with "lives" rather than "health," but don't make you lose any progress when you die.Can you name a few and describe exactly how they operate? Maybe if I see some examples I can understand what people mean.Īll of CAVE's shmups, with the exception of Progear's second loop, respawn you at the same place you died or at the edge of the screen without any rewinding. I'd wager that the terminology is the main source of disagreement here, and that if you ask people here whether they prefer having checkpoints and powering down on death or not, then most would prefer the more forgiving system, which is why a lot of the more modern games tend to be like that. That's why I made the distinction above about a "healthbar" allowing for different damage values, which would distinguish such a system from a discrete "lives" system. The only non-aesthetic difference between that and a healthbar with discrete segments is that your player character may visibly blow up and respawn in the corner the screen, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense presented as a healthbar. You're right that if you respawn at the same place you died and don't lose any significant power then it's a "rose by another name" situation. enough that it makes the game harder and getting the power back is nontrivial). a checkpoint, and/or lose a significant amount of powerups (i.e. I'm taking "losing progress" to mean that you get sent back to a previous part of the level, i.e. To take Magical Chase as an example yet again, if you took the healthbar and replaced the heart icons with icons of Ripple's face, it's still a healthbar and still the same game. As I wrote in my last reply, if you're looking at a game where you can 'die' but you reappear in exactly the same spot with exactly the same gear in exactly the same state (no lost progress) to me that's just a healthbar but with a graphics swap so that the tick marks on the bar are replaced with a row of ship icons. I don't really get how you could have 'lives' that don't do something like this. For me, the concept of lives is basically synonymous with the concept of losing progress and dealing with grind- you have a limited number of tries to complete a section, and each try punishes you (to some degree) by making you start over from some previous position or making you lose your stuff or whatever. Maybe I'm not understanding what people consider or refer to under the word "progress" and what it means to lose it. Shepardus wrote:I feel like we have a difference in terminology hereProbably. There have to be at least a couple more out there somewhere. Magical Chase has several of the elements I like and other games have a few here and there so I know it's not impossible. Right now that means old arcade and console roms. I know full well that in asking for a 90's game (especially a 90's shmup) without this stuff I'm basically asking for a needle in a haystack, and that what I'm looking for is clearly the opposite of what everyone else likes anyway, it's just that I want something that will run on multiple platforms and I'm not willing to throw any money down yet given my odds. If it's what you're into then great I guess, but it might as well be liquid death for me. While other types of games slowly moved away from nintendohard, the shmup world seems to glorify it and any games that try to break away from it (ie healthbars, "Euroshmups", etc) tend to get heavily derided for one reason or another. My problem is not "I hate shmups" but rather "I hate nintendohard". Games that don't do that shit I enjoy quite a lot. Preference for one-hit-kills, bullet-hell, obsession with score and complex score chaining, etc. I do like the idea of shmups and the overall concept, I just don't like the circlejerk that the genre has turned into over the decades. OmegaFlareX wrote:I've seen someone else put forth this idea in your previous threads and I'll 2nd them - shmups (or action games in general) may not be for you.Yeah I know that's come up more than once but I don't agree.
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